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jesuschristhimself

Regarding Safe Zone Combat Rules

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I have a few questions regarding the rules concerning safe zone combat and what counts as avoiding combat. 

 

Scenario 1:

Unarmed little bird(myself) chasing enemy unarmed little bird. Enemy little bird flies directly to safe zone and lands. This initial chase started over 10k away from a safezone at a mission.

 

Scenario 2: (Happened tonight)

Got myself into the gunner seat of a stolen hmg truck. Guy (enemy driver) proceeds to book it directly to the safe zone. Admin said that this was ok and the guy rightfully owned vehicle. The initial situation started at the work camp mission.

 

 

Both these scenarios are as far as I am aware allowed in the servers rules. Now I'll give my argument why I feel this is bullshit.

 

Argument 1:

Both scenarios these people were abusing the god mode safe zone in their favor. They are allowed to go directly to the safe zone and once they get there if I continue to follow them, I am breaking the rules. Definitely ok right? lol...

 

Argument 2:

If these people didn't go to the safe zone and abuse the god mode, the situation could have gone completely differently, they would have to outrun me or land and kill me. Or on the other hand, one of my online teammates that were actively chasing them down could have landed and killed them as well.

 

In my mind, these might not technically be 'running to safe zone when in combat' due to a shot not being technically taken at them, but they are clearly in some sort of combat, and they choose to take the easy abuse way out.

 

 

 

 

Edited by jesuschristhimself
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Its very simple and how we determine if its a combat evade. 

- If you're being actively shot at while fleeing into the safezone. Doesn't matter if you're 300m out or 4km. Then you cant go into the " No Pvp Zone " and essentially that means the " Safezone " in its entirety. (If you've been chased, give it a solid minute to see you're still being shot before going to the safezone. That way you avoid any hassles) 

- About you managing to get into the gunner seat, then yes. Since the driver is the "owner" of set vehicle. Then he can do what he wants. You cant really shoot at him or do anything that would otherwise be able to kill him in that scenario. So unless your buddies manage to keep him in combat by actively shooting at him. Then he's fully allowed to do whatever he wants with that vehicle. 

- People flee to the safezone if they dont wanna lose their stuff, that mindset is unavoidable and will always happen. The rule states " Do not combat evade ". Thats being shot at, We always say. If you've been chased and haven't recieved any bullets flying towards you for a solid minute or so. Then you're free to go into the safezone. 
- Not everyone can be pleased and yes. Chasing a vehicle just to see them go into the safezone is something we've all dealt with. Even the ones among us on the admin staff here. But simply for you chasing a vehicle but not able to shoot at them does not make a valid reason for them not to go into the safezone. Multiple factors involve in this as well.

Are they aware they're being shot at
Are they aware that they're being chased
How long ago was it they were getting shot at
etc etc etc. 

I'm sorry that you've end up in these situations where you get frustrated. But if you're not shooting at the lad. Then he's free to go.


Regards: I'm Trash

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Personally i see this rule more of a hassle then what its worth.

But it has gotten to the point that there are multiple rules and terms for combat,

 

Yet unarmed helicopters still flee to safezone first chance they get.

And i dont blame them.

I am a shit pilot trying to take out a littlebird and if i dont kill him before he gets to safezone then i should have tried harder.

 

Also what if i am being shot at while almost at trader?

Now i have to make a 180 just to drive in to the guys shooting at me?

Or am i allowed to continue my path but not enter safezone?

Does this answer change when i was just in/outside the red circle?

 

Am i allowed to abuse this rule by randomly shooting at everything that is heading towards a trader just so the guys on the ground have time to catch up and kill them?

 

When players do go to no pvp zone while in combat,how long am i allowed to shoot at them without breaking the rules?

Or would me following the rules by not shooting feed the guys argument that he was not taking shots?

 

 

This is all day to day situations that feed the overall saltyness of the community as everybody has his own interpretation.

 

Whats the problem with going back to a black and white situation of

in=save

out=not safe.

Rule: Do not abuse safezone godmode.

PS;Traders are not like Disneyland, they can be camped.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ACAB
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3 hours ago, ACAB said:

Whats the problem with going back to a black and white situation of

in=save

out=not safe.

Rule: Do not abuse safezone godmode.

PS;Traders are not like Disneyland, they can be camped.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats the EXO mindset you got on you still ACAB. 
- Its been talked about and discussed and its not gonna change to that on this server  🙂 . 

- The whole ideology of discussing what sort of scenarios can happen or not happen is gonna be more of a hassle than its worth mate. 
- Report the dude fleeing and eventually he'll be banned for it. If you dont feel like doing that cause its time consuming, lets be honest. Then that fault is on you for not caring enough about the guy fleeing from you while being actively shot at. 
- If you're at the border of the red zone, obviously you're not supposed to turn around. Why I mentioned 300m in particular.... But in all honesty and its what I've done. If I get shot at even if I'm 50-100 meters from the zone. I still drive around the circle and find another entry just to make sure that I dont have to deal with a salty guy that believes he could've killed me before I reached that red zone 🙂

- Think logically when you encounter this stuff, everyone deals with these scenarios and we all handle them in a different manner. The group you play with @ACAB tends to rush into the safezone and start yelling at them in russian or in verbal english. Which me for is not the correct way of telling a guy that there's a rule against what he just did. But thats a topic for another day

Long story short since we're all loving these long ass posts. 

Dont combat evade. If you think you might combat evade. Then drive around the circle to avoid hassle or continue your path and have an admin decide whats gonna happen if the guy reports you. Simple simple  😄 

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@jesuschristhimself

9 hours ago, jesuschristhimself said:

Scenario 2: (Happened tonight)

Got myself into the gunner seat of a stolen hmg truck. Guy (enemy driver) proceeds to book it directly to the safe zone. Admin said that this was ok and the guy rightfully owned vehicle. The initial situation started at the work camp mission.

 

Argument 2:

If these people didn't go to the safe zone and abuse the god mode, the situation could have gone completely differently, they would have to outrun me or land and kill me. Or on the other hand, one of my online teammates that were actively chasing them down could have landed and killed them as well.

 

In my mind, these might not technically be 'running to safe zone when in combat' due to a shot not being technically taken at them, but they are clearly in some sort of combat, and they choose to take the easy abuse way out.

 

I agree on your argument about the 2nd scenario due to the fact being that if you are shooting the HMG gunner then the driver will be put into "Combat Mode". If he drives straight into trader whilst in Combat Mode then in my eyes i'd see that as combat evading 100%. Take combat logging for example, if you're in combat and log out then you're gonna get reported for Combat Logging and dealt with? So why is it different if you're in combat mode and drive into Safe Zone? To me the driver just got away with no punishment and managed to keep his car when he could of possibly had teammates that could of just shot you out anyways.

 

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13 hours ago, I'm Trash said:

Its very simple and how we determine if its a combat evade. 

- If you're being actively shot at while fleeing into the safezone. Doesn't matter if you're 300m out or 4km. Then you cant go into the " No Pvp Zone " and essentially that means the " Safezone " in its entirety. (If you've been chased, give it a solid minute to see you're still being shot before going to the safezone. That way you avoid any hassles) 

- About you managing to get into the gunner seat, then yes. Since the driver is the "owner" of set vehicle. Then he can do what he wants. You cant really shoot at him or do anything that would otherwise be able to kill him in that scenario. So unless your buddies manage to keep him in combat by actively shooting at him. Then he's fully allowed to do whatever he wants with that vehicle. 

- People flee to the safezone if they dont wanna lose their stuff, that mindset is unavoidable and will always happen. The rule states " Do not combat evade ". Thats being shot at, We always say. If you've been chased and haven't recieved any bullets flying towards you for a solid minute or so. Then you're free to go into the safezone. 
- Not everyone can be pleased and yes. Chasing a vehicle just to see them go into the safezone is something we've all dealt with. Even the ones among us on the admin staff here. But simply for you chasing a vehicle but not able to shoot at them does not make a valid reason for them not to go into the safezone. Multiple factors involve in this as well.

Are they aware they're being shot at
Are they aware that they're being chased
How long ago was it they were getting shot at
etc etc etc. 

I'm sorry that you've end up in these situations where you get frustrated. But if you're not shooting at the lad. Then he's free to go.


Regards: I'm Trash

I understand what you are saying and I think it can safely be summed up as, "The rules are the way they are because it would be too difficult to evaluate situations otherwise".

 

I do completely disagree with the second situation, I can somewhat get your point regarding the hummingbird as really its just some shitty chase and nothing can really happen, but at the same time, if safe zones didn't exist, my friends could hop in a Pawnee or ghost hawk and destroy the guy I'm chasing. But regarding being in the gunner of a vehicle while someone drives you to the safe zone, this presents many problems.

 

What does it mean to be in combat?

The red icon which doesn't accurately show up half the time when in vehicles?

Being shot at? Well although the gunner seat technically can't shoot the vehicle, bullets are landing next to the vehicle which should put him in combat, but most of the time it doesn't.

 

Also... Why is the driver the owner of the vehicle?. That presents a whole other question which I don't believe anyone can answer well. 

Its understood that if someone steals a vehicle and they drive it to a safe zone, they own it. But when a friendly and enemy are inside a vehicle, I don't really see why that rule still applies unquestioned.

 

And for that matter, what If I lock the car while in gunner, am I breaking the rules even if I do it outside the safe zone? Apparently, I don't own the car. I feel questions like these show that any simple answer is flawed and can really only be determined on a case by case basis.

 

I still fully believe that any abuse of safe zone godmode should be against the rules but I also understand that it is extremely difficult if not impossible to determine if someone is abusing safe zone protection for various reasons.

 

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If you're in combat - don't fly or run to safezone like a little bitch. Simple as that. 

 

If being chased by a heli or ground vehicle that is shooting at you, not putting you in the "combat" with the icon, you're still in combat!!! 

 

STOP COMBAT EVADERS, BUILD A WALL!

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As a new player I genuinely don't understand this rule and had experience of it yesterday and got accused of being a rule breaker. I have played on every popular exile server, epoch server etc. I have 4k+ hours. Just do not understand this one bit, what purpose does it serve?

So I am flying to the safe zone in a humming bird. We are on the way there I am 2.5km from the safe zone when we start taking fire. I presume its from the mission we went past, my passenger informs its a pawnee.

We are now 2km at full speed from the safe zone... Legitimately 10 or 20 seconds away from the zone....

We avoided the fire with some low flying and strafing etc... Next thing the guy lands next to me and is legit crying about rule breaking.

Now I read the rules and see its a rule... but what on earth am I supposed to do in this situation? I cant out run him as we have the same speed.... am I just supposed to fly in circles next to the trader until he or someone else kills me? Do we have to emergency land so we slow right down and make ourselves an easy target for him or anyone else watching?

I felt in this situation it was borderline senseless, but as its a rule I thought there must be a reason for it..


But then I thought about it again, if I am driving in a offroad omw to the trader already and a HMG stryder starts chasing me, and I cant shake his tail.... then surely the only real viable defence is to make it to the trader....

Like this situation seems completely even and fair. The guy has a time limit to blast me and in all honestly the cards are firmly stacked in his favour. Similarly if I actually managed to make it away to the safe zone after being chased for a couple of minutes surely I did pretty well... Like the fact I could actually banned for evading an armed armoured vehicle seems a little unfair.

What is the reason for this rule, as a new player I have no idea? 

I have had it plenty of times where I am chasing someone, if they manage to escape to the safe zone then they outdid me, its my bad. The fact someone would even consider this as a situation where they would report someone..... its unimaginably weak imo. To chase an unarmed dude in an offroad or a humming bird in your armoured vehicle and then report them after they evade you becasue you missed every shot... just wow.

Just seems in a lot of situations you are just asking the weaker party to pretty much accept death because the person who cant shoot in the armoured / armed vehicle might get upset over it if you evade them.... 

Edited by teknotel
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you say you had a passenger, why not let him jump out while you try to lure it into a position where your teammate can then shoot him down, or atleast split the pawnees focus so 1 of you can get out or in a position to do something

that way you didnt have to abuse something like godmode that you get from a trader, but instead fight him using legitimate mechanics (this is the reason stingers are also in the game, to help you counter them)

 

he was in a better position, he was better prepared (by bringing a pawnee) and managed to get a shot on you, and you just hard-countered that by not getting hit by a shot for 10 seconds..

how is that fair towards him?

 

 

imagine you are in a pawnee, and you're fighting a blackhawk, or some other vehicle that takes a few shots to take down

he needs to hit you like once and you'll go down, while he might take a few more shots..

you manage to hit it a couple times, enough to damage it but not quite enough to blow it up,

now it flees into the trader, lands, repairs, and comes back out later fully repaired and rearmed and you no longer have the drop on it.. manages to hit you once, and kills you..

theres no fun in getting outplayed by a safezone..

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The players that are running armed vehicles like HMGs/ pawnees are typically not the guys that have to cambat avoid.

 

The players that run to safezone are usually(key word usually) not the guys that have a group backing them up to ambush said individuals. 

 

I think the guy has a point and it might be hitting the wrong group of people the hardest. 

 

 

Just think about it. 

It's usually the smalltimers that have to resort to running to safezone. 

 

I am not saying the rule should be changed on the spot,

but realize that is a easy griefing tool for big groups to use.... 

 

You get the point. 

 

Fuck now I made another long post i am out. 

 

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Genuinely to this statement I am perplexed..

5 hours ago, Setavai said:

how is that fair towards him?

Erm... because he picked a fight on a weak target... then failed to land shots in however long the chase lasted.... Like how is it even unfair? Does the chase just go on forever until the guy with the bigger vehicle eventually lands a shot? 

 

5 hours ago, Setavai said:

and you just hard-countered that by not getting hit by a shot for 10 seconds.

Totally missing the point he that he missed... and continued to miss... like its not really me cheating him when he has a chance to land a shot or two but didn't. To compare this to combat loggins seems a bit far fetched. Like combat logging you totally remove the chance for your enemy to kill you whereas evading to the safe zone will involve a vehicle chase that could last however long... you have the entire time to land your shots or set up a interception

 

5 hours ago, Setavai said:

(this is the reason stingers are also in the game, to help you counter them)

60k from a black market is not realistic for a new player just out farming.. We even now have a group of four, no base, but we have probablyu 3-400k pop tabs and none of us would consider going out with a stinger atm.

 

5 hours ago, Setavai said:

imagine you are in a pawnee, and you're fighting a blackhawk, or some other vehicle that takes a few shots to take down

Sure.. I agree somewhat.. It is not what I am talking about, I am saying when you are totally defenceless...  I mean personally I might find what you described annoying in the same way I find base campers annoying, yet its part of the game and if someone evaded me I have no comprehension of feeling hard done by or cheated somehow by this... that said:

 

5 hours ago, Setavai said:

theres no fun in getting outplayed by a safezone..

Except that only partially true as you actually had a window and failed also. To blame the safezone for or your own failing seems wrong. Even more so when you are picking on a target who cannot realistically defend themselves.

I appreciate your response but in the spirit of discussion a lot of it doesn't seem to make much sense to me when you think about it.

I only think its an issue for newbies anyway, like who has an armed vehicle and isn't returning fire?

Whether or not you agree or disagree I think the fact is there is so many situations where it would be incredibly harsh to punish a newbie or someone alone with no defence for running away and trying to survive or save their gear they may have just grinded however long for. I just struggle to see how the person with nothing to lose and every advantage is the person that needs supporting here.

My experience was riduclous, a guy who cant land a shot from a pawnee to save his fires at me and I am expected to turn around 10 seconds or whatever away from my destination and engage in some sort of rule enforced surrender....

Sure.. if he is bad enough I have a chance to do some insane landing where he cant shoot me, then return fire with my 5.56 and dome him as he swoops in missing every shot.

Similarly if he is good enough he can just land the shots required to bring me down. 

Anyway thanks for explaining the reasoning behind it, I will personally adhere to the rule and stop in future, just saying it seems a little unkind to new players or solo guys.

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11 hours ago, ACAB said:

The players that are running armed vehicles like HMGs/ pawnees are typically not the guys that have to cambat avoid.

 

The players that run to safezone are usually(key word usually) not the guys that have a group backing them up to ambush said individuals. 

 

I think the guy has a point and it might be hitting the wrong group of people the hardest. 

 

 

Just think about it. 

It's usually the smalltimers that have to resort to running to safezone. 

 

I am not saying the rule should be changed on the spot,

but realize that is a easy griefing tool for big groups to use.... 

 

You get the point. 

 

Fuck now I made another long post i am out. 

 

To be fair isn't this what you group has done and sometimes still does? 

 

-JP

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You can't account me for my groups actions. 

They all have there own motivations for doing so. 

 

This doesn't mean I agree with it. 

Please note my +800 hours and zero player reports. 

 

 

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To followup on what Tek said, if that actually truly is against the rules, can someone explain to me what to do in a similar situation then?

 

eg I fly to the safe zone in my UNARMED bird, because Im a poorfag. Suddenly a wild pawnee starts spraying me, what are my options according to rules? Do I have to fly around until he hits me or runs out of ammo? -.- Because lets be real, if there is no "safe zone" , you arent getting away in that situation.

 

I kinda get that this rule is meant to prevent situations where maybe both parties can defend themselves and once one side starts losing, they leg it to safezone, but even then, ye its frustrating maybe, but you shouldnt pick a fight near safe zone then?

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Exactly how hard is it to understand ? 

 

It does not matter if you on your own everyone been in that situation so i seriously doubt the rule will be changed due to incompetence to realize you can not flee into a safe zone just to save your stuff.

 

As for the question what you suppose to do : Drive off to another trader and maybe you lost them by then or drive around and think how you may lose them long enough.

 

No more needs to be said the admins have explained the rule above.

Edited by MrTickles
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